confused by patchouli

[kindkit]

I hate patchouli. Except, apparently, when I love it.

Much of my experience with patchouli comes from encountering people drenched in it, and in those circumstances it literally makes me queasy. So, as I explore perfumes, I thought that hating patchouli gave me a guideline.

However, some years back I had a sample of BPAL's Mary Read, which is sea salt and "ocean" and rum and a pretty significant dose of patchouli. I liked it, but I thought I liked it despite the patchouli.

Recently I got a new sample, and now I love it, and what's more, I'm pretty sure I love it because of the patchouli. And yet the patchouli-soaked hippies I deal with at work still make me gag. I'm baffled!

So what's the difference between the nice patchouli and the rank stuff? Is it the quality of the patchouli itself? The amount (but I put on quite a bit of Mary Read and still loved it)? Is it the fact that Mary Read is made with aged patchouli?

I googled around a bit looking for articles but didn't find much. I did see the post at Kafkaesque with recs for patchouli scents she recommends, but it seemed written more for enthusiasts than skeptics. Can anybody point me towards some info? And I'd also welcome recs for perfumes with a patcholi presence but where the patchouli is smooth, gentle, not dirty.

Thanks!

Comments

[white_aster]

I have noticed the same, that there are a lot of different things that people popularly label "patchouli". Some of the "hippie" patchoulis and patchouli perfumes (not essential oils) I think just have more things in them than just patchouli, but that people often don't/can't identify what's the patchouli and what's the "other stuff". Some smell more incensey to me, some more soft and powdery, and I think it's just because the patchouli in them is like eggs in cake: yeah, all cakes have eggs, but they're all different due to what else is in them (and you'd not point to a cake as an example of an egg...this metaphor might not be the best, but I think you get my point.)

I do imagine that there are different grades, types, species, and preparations of even pure patchouli oil. Different varieties of the plant, where they're grown, how they're distilled, etc. This page seems to have a nice video that describes how Indonesian patchouli oil has varied types/grades, and they do say they smell different, and how the industry eventually shifted to use the cheaper versions. All I could suggest is that you try to find some reputable places that will sell you isolated samples of JUST different types of patchouli oil (rather than patchouli FRAGRANCE oils which are generally just stuff made to 'smell like' patchouli), so you can give them a sniff. Just be careful, though, as some essential oils are very concentrated and can cause some skin reactions undiluted (and I can't remember if patchouli is one of them).

[sine_nomine]

IIRC, one should not use essential oils directly on the skin. A carrier oil is recommended.

Thanks for the explanation on patchouli! It explains a great deal.

[white_aster]

Yeah, definitely, that was what I meant, I was just being general because I'm sure there's SOME essential oil out there that is skinsafe, I just wasn't sure about patchouli. Also, many places will sell things labeled as "essential oil" that are already diluted to one degree or another, though it may be unclear how much.

[kindkit]

Thanks! The video's very interesting, though now I'm wondering if patchouli cultivation for perfumes is causing a lot of environmental damage.

I wonder if the difference between the different varieties of patchouli is purely down to where it's grown, or if they're actually different species (or maybe just cultivars) of the plant.

[white_aster]

Right, it was interesting how they said that the reason for the shift was because the plant would deplete the soil of nutrients. I have no idea if they're correct or not, though I do see some gardening things that say if you grow it, it does need regular fertilizer, which would follow (others call it low-maintenance, though, so who knows). Some types of soil depletion can be fairly easily mitigated by crop rotation or fertilizing or growing/plowing under a cover crop for a season to replenish the soil. Without knowing what it is depleting, though, or how a farmer in that region deals with that, it's hard to guess what the long-term effects are or if they go away over time.

There do appear to be various species!

[devon]

I was following reddit fragrance subs until the boycott, but it's still a good source for searches. Here's one interesting thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Perfumes/comments/t5ijaw/what_does_patchouli_smell_like_to_you/

with a lot of people who strongly dislike it, but a few good comments about different types of smells it can have.

I also thought I hated it, but I think the prime offenders are people who use "pure" patchouli oil instead of bathing. (I live in a traditionally hippie university town.) Spoiler: it does not mix well with BO, nor does it cover it. It can smell earthy but clean, especially as a supporting note.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fragrance/comments/k4e6lk/best_patchouli_fragrance/
this is all recs, but mostly for fragrances that feature patchouli as the focus. It's not a bad place to start.

If you want to go farther, this is the search I used:
"site:reddit.com patchouli varieties"
and you can change out "varieties" to "recommendations" for specific scents.

[devon]

I'll add that I really like patchouli combined with vetiver. Vetiver can also be a polarizing scent, but it is much more woody and less funky, so I think it balances patchouli well as the base of a fragrance.

Now I'm trying to think of what I have with a fair amount of patchouli that I really like ...

[rydra_wong]

Givenchy Gentleman (the 1974 version) is the tastiest patchouli-vetiver-leather. Very 1970s macho but in a good way (IMHO). Has to be applied in very careful quantities or it could kill someone with the sillage.

The patchouli isn't gentle, but it's sitting in a leather armchair or a vintage car and very definitely not a hippie, if that makes sense.

Just writing about it made me have to go and put some on.

Confusingly, there's a 2018 Givenchy scent with the same name but the 1974 scent has not been discontinued and is still available.

[devon]

the 74 version sounds awesome. I have a carded sample of a flanker of the new one - Givenchy Gentleman EDP Boisée. It's pretty nice, but it's very different from the original. Mostly iris, woods, sandalwood, touch of cocoa. I discovered last year that I love iris.

[rydra_wong]

Getting off-topic from patchouli:

I discovered last year that I love iris.

Commended to your attention, if you like iris with a bit of cocoa:

https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Dior/Dior-Homme-13015.html

[rydra_wong]

P.S. kindkit, not sure this would fit your requirements as it's definitely not gentle, but OTOH it's one of those ones that's worth smelling just out of curiosity and historical interest, as an iconic masculine.

[kindkit]

I'm trying not to be too persnickety about what I'm willing to test, and it does sound interesting!

[devon]

I have a bunch of BPALs, but I honestly don't reach for them often lately. These are some examples that you could easily smell in person at a dept store or Sephora or Ulta, if you have those nearby. You could even ask one of the counter people to show you a couple of fragrances that have softer or sweeter patchouli, as a way to test how your nose reacts.

BPAL is much harder to guess at, but I'll try adding another comment about those later.

I really like Nomade - it's available in dept stores, and it feels "grown up" to me.
https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Chloe/Nomade-48434.html

I don't like Chanel Coco Mademoiselle, but it's not because of the patchouli. I think it's too sweet for me, or else it's the rose. There's been a big wave of "fruit-chouli" perfumes in the last few years that Coco Mad (not to be confused with original Coco) sort of made popular.
https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Chanel/Coco-Mademoiselle-611.html

Victor & Rolf Flowerbomb is another floral patchouli that's a bit sweet and has rose. I don't hate it, but I don't like it. Extremely popular:
https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Viktor-Rolf/Flowerbomb-1460.html

I love how Nest Black Tulip starts - it's a true fruit-chouli - but as it dries down, the patchouli gets a bit funky.
https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Nest/Black-Tulip-42889.html

[devon]

sorry, I didn't look at your profile before I listed a bunch of typically feminine perfumes. Nomade is fairly unisex, but the other 3 are not. If you're interested in retro 90's stuff at all, Thierry Mugler made a series of Angel and A*Men perfumes that all feature patchouli in the base. The original ones are pretty strong and honestly divisive, but A*Men has a bunch of flankers that seem very popular among men in the reddits I read. A lot of people consider some of the Angel varients to be unisex as well.

[kindkit]

No worries! I meant to note that I prefer perfumes in the unisex-to-masc range, but then I forgot.

I don't know enough about perfumes to think anything about retro 90sones, but Angel was apparently divisive enough for me to have heard of it. I'll keep A*Men in mind.

[devon]

ah, I see I can't edit a comment that I have commented on. I just found this online, and I laughed:

patchouli

1. A plant that smells like a Grateful Dead concert.
2. Not a shower, contrary to San Franciso's public policy on hygiene.
3. Slang term for Filty Filthy Hippie

"No hipppie, that's a bad hippie. Patchouli is not a shower!"

I've been scrolling through this fragrance reference site (which also has active fora that I don't participate in) looking for patchouli fragrances I recognize or like:
https://www.fragrantica.com/notes/Patchouli-34.html

[kindkit]

Hah, yeah, I work in a place with a lot of hippie clientele, and there are folks who neither bathe often nor use deodorant but use patchouli liberally.

Thanks for the links!

[rydra_wong]

The amount (but I put on quite a bit of Mary Read and still loved it)?

Could be to do with how it's blended in with other notes (and what notes), versus smelling like you just dumped too much patchouli essential oil on yourself?

And I'd also welcome recs for perfumes with a patcholi presence but where the patchouli is smooth, gentle, not dirty.

A lot of people rate L'Instant de Guerlain pour Homme very highly (it's been ages since I smelled it so I can't comment directly). Though it may depend how you feel about cocoa and anise.

https://akafkaesquelife.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/guerlain-linstant-de-guerlain-pour-homme-linstant-eau-extreme/

It has many versions but the EDP is still in production, I believe:

https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Guerlain/L-Instant-de-Guerlain-pour-Homme-EDP-44763.html

[kindkit]

Could be to do with how it's blended in with other notes (and what notes)

I wish I knew. There are other perfumes with patchouli where I get more of that kind of unwashed rankness that I don't like (and I know it's the perfume rather than the wearer because I'm trying them on me!). Mary Read has a lot of sweetness (from the rum and the ocean-whatever) as well as salt, and maybe those particular notes play off patchouli in a way that works for me. I know I'd find Mary Read too sweet if the patchouli wasn't in there.

L'Instant (especially the Extreme) sounds really interesting; adding it to my list of things to try when I next order some samples.

[rydra_wong]

Mary Read has a lot of sweetness (from the rum and the ocean-whatever) as well as salt, and maybe those particular notes play off patchouli in a way that works for me. I know I'd find Mary Read too sweet if the patchouli wasn't in there.

Makes sense; I can see how patchouli would cut through sweet notes and stop them from getting sickly (and conversely, the sweetness could help smooth out the patchouli so it doesn't go "unwashed hippies" on you).

[rydra_wong]

This is not a rec per se and would not fit the bill of what you're looking for, but Frederic Malle's Music For A While is a fascinatingly-broken scent which I enjoy greatly.

I have described it as original!Givenchy Gentleman wearing a Carmen Miranda pineapple hat. What if we took this uber-masculine patchouli and dumped tinned pineapple on it and then chucked in some lavender for good measure and watched them all fight it out?

https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/Frederic-Malle/Music-For-a-While-47795.html

Immensely weird.

[kindkit]

That sounds deeply strange. I can sort of see patchouli and pineapple, as a kind of tropical theme, but then lavender??? And anise, and bergamot and mandarin. From the list of notes it's a hot mess, but from the reviews it sounds like the perfumer made it work, at least for some.

Almost certainly not my cup of pineapple juice, but I'm deeply curious about what it smells like.

[rydra_wong]

It is absolutely a hot mess, but if nothing else it's not boring.

[devon]

for BPAL, this site has great reviews of perfumes you might be considering, and there's also an entire forum for recommendations. I think you get faster search results if you make an account and login, but you can read all that stuff without doing it.

https://www.bpal.org/

https://www.bpal.org/topic/1838-bpal-patchouli-theres-nothing-else-like-it/

[kindkit]

Thanks! I have an account there, I just don't use it very often. I'm not looking for BPALs specifically (I just happen to be trying some at the moment, because I used to wear BPAL a lot and I'm trying to see what I still like), but I'll have a look and see what people are saying.

[chestnut_pod]

An interesting and worthwhile question! I'm afraid that I am a dedicated patchouli-hater, and so don't have an opinion on its fine gradations. I do, however, have a fun book recommendation that includes notes on patchouli: Scent: A Natural History of Fragrance, by Elise Vernon Pearlstine.

[kindkit]

Oh, thanks! I'd love to be more informed on the building blocks of perfumery.

[ravengown]

I am definitely someone who used to think I hated patchouli. I've been looking for more of it lately, but one I really like that should be obtainable and is very gentle is Blood Cedar from Firebird (they sample and their turnaround is pretty good). The owner said that they didn't really like patchouli much, and sort of wanted to make something with that component that they enjoyed. It's blood orange and patchouli I think- but not stinky.

[kindkit]

Mmm, that sounds like a good combination. Since I posted, I've tried another BPAL with patchouli (Voodoo) and not only liked it, I actually found myself thinking "I wish this had a little more patchouli." So my mind/taste seems to be changing.

[rydra_wong]

I've had the same experience, where a note seems weird/offputting/unpleasant to me for ages and then I encounter it in a context which works for me and it's like I've learned how to "read" it -- "Oh, this is how it can fit into a perfume, this is how it can work" -- and then I get much more into it (including sometimes being able to enjoy it in perfumes I didn't like before).